rharris
 Member since 5/1/2008 9:13:35 AM
| Hydrogen Fuel cell warning Posted: 5/7/2008
I ran across this on the net today, has anyone else ever heard this?
UPDATED 03/08) "A WARNING about 'build your own electrolyzer plans', sold on the Internet and the use of "Baking Soda" in your Electrolyzer."
It has come to our attention that there are now several Internet Businesses selling DIY type books, DVDs and CDROMs telling people how to build their own "electrolyzers" and "MAP Enhancers".
While we applaud their effort and encourage the efforts of those that wish to build their own systems, we must warn that the feeble attempt, in these plans, to copy our "Protium Fuel Optimizer" and "Protium Oxyisolator" are not accurate and will actually cause problems with the Fuel Injection Computer. If you'd like to save some time and money by not having to trash what you've built from these plans, you can always come to Protium Fuel Systems.
And finally, we must insist in the strongest terms possible, the use of "Baking Soda" in an Electrolyzer CAN BE DEADLY! If an Electrolyzer is built correctly, no catalyst is needed for safe operations. Yet, they suggest the most deadly combination of off-the-shelf products.
It's obvious, these peddlers of books and DVDs have no idea how these systems operate or they would know that it only takes a small leak or accidental exposure to the DEADLY GASES that are generated by the use of "Baking Soda" to kill you and your loved ones. Please heed this warning. Save your money and save your families life.
For those of you that doubt the lethality of the usage of "Baking Soda", please read the following and then spread the word:
When you place Baking Soda in your Electrolizer, you create a deadly gas that is odorless, tasteless, and colorless. The only symptom you'll have of your poisoning is sudden, uncontrollable sleepiness, and by this time ... it's too late ... you're DEAD!
First, "Baking Soda" is NOT a catalyst, it's a CONSUMABLE.
Second, when you use Baking Soda in your Electrolyzer you create a molecular reaction that forms "CARBON MONOXIDE GAS". Yes, the same stuff that comes out of the exhaust pipe of your vehicle. Great for suicide, not great for hydrogen.
Third and most important, what makes it more lethal than your exhaust gases is the fact it is not laced with other toxins which would make your eyes burn, irritate your lungs and create nausea. All wonderful warnings to get out before you drop dead. Therefore, without these extra toxins, the only warning you have is the sudden sleepiness. Actually, that's not a warning at all, it's you dying ...
If you still have any doubts about this. Contact any chemist. They will confirm everything you've just read. Now, spread the word and save someone's life!
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kauboy

Member since 6/19/2008 9:36:21 AM
| Re:Hydrogen Fuel cell warning Posted: 6/19/2008 All I can say is, don't trust everything you read on the internet...
I found this as well:
http://ezinearticles.com/?HHO-Gas-Conversion-Kit---Expensive-Kit-Or-Affordable-DIY-Hydrogen-Generator?&id=1178025
In it, it states:
"Nonetheless, this person sells a pre-built hydrogen generator with a
$1000 price tag and he has made the blanket statement that there are
people on the internet "peddling lethal junk to innocent people" in the
way of DIY guide books.
He states that these guides instruct that
you use baking soda as a "catalyst" for the generator and that it
produces carbon monoxide and that even a small leak can kill you.
Pretty bold and serious statements to be sure.
I asked this man
to send me any factual proof, government warnings or statistics on
those hurt by running their own hydrogen generators. He wrote back that
if I didn't believe him I could ask any high school chemistry teacher.
I thought this was a pretty lame answer so I wrote back stating that if
a person makes a claim against another that causes that person
financial harm (which he was doing by claiming the guides people were
selling on the internet could kill people) then he needed some factual
data supporting his claims. He wrote back that I should forward any
more correspondence to his lawyer. Interesting and typical response
from someone caught lying.
But to be sure, I had my generator
tested by an independent, licensed technician which showed no carbon
monoxide production. I contacted an actual scientist and researcher
from Gulf Laboratories and he said the claims this man made were
"laughably ridiculous" and that his 25 years experience told him that
you don't get carbon monoxide from baking soda.
I contacted the
company I originally bought my DIY guide from and forwarded the article
to him and said I wanted my money back if this turned out to be true.
He sent me documentation and proof that the system was safe and said
that the claims made by this person selling the expensive HHO gas kit
were "unsubstantiated ranting and filled with so many inaccuracies that
it could not even be taken seriously"."
Remembering back to my Chemistry days, I decided to look into this claim myself and figure out the equation.
According to him, adding Baking Soda to water, and then electrifying it will cause Carbon Monoxide.
So, lets break this up.
First we have Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3
Then, we have water - H2O
The mixture of these two would produce as follows:
NaHCO3 + H2O -> 3H + O2 + CO2 + Na
That is, Sodium Bicarbonat and Dihydrogen monoxide(fancy for water)
would produce 3 Hydrogen atoms, the Oxygen molecule, Carbon
Dioxide(harmless to us, since we exhale it), and a Sodium ion.
or
NaHCO3 + H2O -> H2O + H + O +CO2 + Na (which when electrolyzed,
would split the H2O into HHO and leave us with the 3H O2 mix again)
I may have something wrong, and please feel free to correct me.
But I just can't get this equation to make Carbon Monoxide.
The only possible way to make Carbon Monoxide (CO) would be if we also made Ozone(O3), which we certainly don't.
Now I may be forgetting bond strength and such, about which molecules
split or form easier than others, but I can't be far from right.
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